Veganism

General
#1

“A way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.”

Hello people of PCB, if you want to talk to me about veganism then I am happy to talk to you, but if you’re just trying to make jokes about vegans or veganism, trying to justify your dietary choices and not open to learning or listening to other viewpoints, then I’m not interested. Just to clarify, veganism is not a dietary choice, and it is not a diet. Veganism is an ethical and moral way of living, it is a lifestyle, not just a diet and it encompasses much more than just what you put in your mouth. A plant based diet does not mean someone is a vegan.

It’s very hard to have a discussion about anything really when you are clearly unedcuated about the topic, and unfortunately most people are uneducated about veganism. All of the concerns I hear about veganism are usually myths or just untrue. Veganism (FOR ALL AGES) is supported by the World Health Organization, and you shouldn’t be turned away from veganism for perceived negative health consequences because human health BENEFITS from cutting animal products like meat, dairy, and eggs from your diet.

I highly suggest watching any of these three documentaries to learn more about veganism. They’re all available on Netflix which most people have access to nowadays, but there are other ways to watch them if you can’t there.
Cowspiracy- http://www.cowspiracy.com/
Forks Over Knives- https://www.forksoverknives.com/
What The Health- http://www.whatthehealthfilm.com/

Here are some videos I highly recommend watching
{I could link so many more but these are pretty comprehensive for now…
There was a lot more I wanted to say but I just don’t have the energy at the moment but one last thing- I will never stop talking about veganism just because it makes someone “uncomfortable” because the real one that is uncomfortable is not me or you, but the planet that is being destroyed by the animal agriculture industry, the animals that are confined suffering and dying for meat dairy and eggs. and all of the people who’s health are suffering because of animal products in their diet. So I’m sorry if vegans make you uncomfortable but it’s about more than whatever my “personal opinion” is, it’s not about me. Veganism is bigger than me.
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#2

So, if we argue our perspective, we’re not welcome in this thread?

#3

@Lyra_ciel No, you are welcome. I’m talking about people who are only trying to justify eating/using animal products and not open to learning anything or considering the bigger picture. It’s like talking to a wall.

#4

sorry man but veganism sucks
lets face it, most people would choose a fuckin tasty juicy meat burger over some vegan shit.

I have tried a vegan diet so many time but I always end up feeling weak and sick. vegan diets may not work well for everybody, each body works differently. some people are allergic to some plant products such as (nuts,beans,soy,etc…) Also some people cant afford vegan product because its expensive. it might be cheap in your country but still in other parts of the world vegan products are still much expensive than regular food. but I am not saying I am against veganism I totally support people who feel great about being vegan.

#5

@SaltedWolf I don’t know what to say to that. I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience with veganism. These were the types of comments I was hoping people would keep to themselves because saying “veganism sucks” isn’t a valid point. I saw a lot of bad excuses in what you said. I think you just need more education on how to properly plan your diet, and about what the point of veganism is. Once you’re a vegan there should be no going back, because it’s a moral and ethical view. It sounds like you’ve tried a poorly planned plant based diet and blamed veganism for your failure.

#6

I’m totally fine with veganism and vegans because I believe every one should have the freedom to make their life choices, and I respect them. It only gets problematic when people turn veganism, a lifestyle, into something more, such as an ideology or a social movement.

The problem with veganism as an ideology is the same as the problem with many other ideologies around the world: the arguments that support it can be used the other way around in the exact same way.

Think of it this way: most vegans argue that the meat industry is a ferocious lobby that needs to be dismantled, that governments should “uncover the most destructive industry in the planet”. However, can’t the exactly same thing be said about vegan and organic food companies, that they’re trying to uncover those industries by spreading these conspiracies and by comparing them to terrorist organisation? If the meat industry ends, it will need to be replaced, and the ones who profit are precisely the vegan industries, and so we start to forget our initial objective (to have a better diet, a better health, etc…) and move towards another ultimate goal: make money. You’ll find this duality in pro-vaccine groups vs. alternative medicine apologists, oil and coal companies vs. “green” companies, etc… Basically, these whole discussions keep going in circles because we have two different groups, each trying to push forward with their agenda while using the same arguments.

#7

I respect people in their choices about veganism, it is not of major relevance on the task of running a society.

However, I have a very different belief.

Firstly, I think discussing complex points such as these (veganism, vegetarianism…) is pointless before having determined what is really ethic and moral. You don’t need to read whole philosophical books, but just think on the most basic and, with time, getting to more complex matters: it avoids common reason mistakes on theories etc.

Okay, so now I can get started.

My beliefs are based on some thoughts of Nietzsche, in this case:

Reason is a tool that the Human being has to achieve happiness, and happiness is based on instinct. Since our first ancestors, we have been eating meat (not exclusively), so, meat has always been a part of our diet. The argument that we eat some animals and don’t eat others is contradictory, since our diet is based on what our instinct points us to do. Also, the same way animals hunt to eat, we do the same, even indirectly. Denial of the human instinct means denial of the life you have, therefore, in my view, being Vegan is not ethic or moral, it is the denial of living a life of happiness.

#8

I have grown up eating meat and that most likely won’t change. As a child, it would be VERY hard for not just me, but for my parents. My mom would have to make a new meal every day and buy expensive vegan food. In my opinion, it’s just not worth the struggle. I like meat and I will never stop liking it. If a few people come screaming at me because I eat meat that my mom and dad spend money on most likely won’t make me want to become vegan.

Talking to someone that isn’t vegan in a harsh way about what they eat isn’t a great way to show them how great veganism might be. If someone came to me and started telling me how meat will kill me and how it’s bad for you and how it’s on in our nature to kill animals and stuff and accuse me of not liking animals really hurts me and makes me NOT want to become vegan. Maybe if you would just calm down and say “Hey, I’m vegan and I think that it’s a great lifestyle, do you want to hear about it?” If you said that I probably would want to listen to what you have to say and talk about veganism.

Being a vegan or vegetarian takes a power that I don’t have. I am still living at home so I have to eat what my mom makes for us. I’m not going to make her life harder just because I don’t want to eat meat. I have NOTHING against vegans. When a vegan comes at you and says that you’re ignorant for hating animals and eating them is very rude.

I love animals and when my dad goes hunting I try to stop it. But if someone needs meat to survive, then go ahead and kill an animal to survive. Eating meat is in our nature and veganism won’t stop everyone from eating meat. That’s it. Eating meat gives you so many nutrients and vitamins that people need to survive.

But the other day I had this beautiful cut of medium rare filet mignon and it was SO good.

#9

Humans are omnivores, enough said :stuck_out_tongue:

#10
#11

Can we please just end this conversation? Anima, we can say that veganism isn’t real or whatever but you can say that killing animals is despicable. THIS CONVERSATION CAN GO ON FOR HOURS, AND DAYS! You can argue about your point for as long as you want but this is going on for too long. People will just answe saying that meat is necessary for our diet but you’ll disagree. Can we please end this?
Edit: I get that you want people to understand veganism is totally okay, but if you keep trying to prove your point for days then it just gets annoying. We don’t hate People that are vegan.

#12

Well as you know, we used to get along fine. But I can’t help but point out some things here.

Hello people of PCB, if you want to talk to me about veganism then I am happy to talk to you, but if you're just trying to make jokes about vegans or veganism, [b]trying to justify your dietary choices, not open to learning or listening to other viewpoints, then I'm not interested.[/b]

Right so, I get the part about that you don’t want people to make stupid jokes and all that shit, but if you want to talk about veganism you have to be open for discussion in my opinion. This goes for everyone, and not just for this subject but just felt like pointing this out.

Now moving on

It's very hard to have a discussion about anything really when you are clearly unedcuated about the topic, and unfortunately most people are uneducated about veganism. All of the concerns I hear about veganism are usually myths or just untrue. Veganism (FOR ALL AGES) is supported by the World Health Organization, and you shouldn't be turned away from veganism for perceived negative health consequences because human health BENEFITS from cutting animal products like meat, dairy, and eggs from your diet.

Now yes, the average person on earth, eats a lot of meat. Too much in fact. However, completely cutting it from your diet does have negative consequences. For example, calcium found in diary helps strengthen your bones. However, too much isn’t right.

There was a lot more I wanted to say but I just don't have the energy at the moment but one last thing- I will never stop talking about veganism just because it makes someone "uncomfortable" because the real one that is uncomfortable is not me or you, but the planet that is being destroyed by the animal agriculture industry, the animals that are confined suffering and dying for meat dairy and eggs. and all of the people who's health are suffering because of animal products in their diet. So I'm sorry if vegans make you uncomfortable but it's about more than whatever my "personal opinion" is, it's not about me. Veganism is bigger than me.

Now, vegans don’t make me uncomfortable. Nobody should feel uncomfortable about vegans. But to be honest, people that have to show off about it do. Sure, if you choose not to interact with animal producs I respect that and so should everyone else. But that doesn’t mean it should be shoved down someone else’s throat.

Again, the planet is is not destroyed by animal agriculture industry. It’s destroyed by excessive amounts of it. Which in my opinion is something we can do something about as I stated before.

Perhaps the only thing I can completely agree with here, is that the way we treat (some) of the animals is horrible. However veganism is bigger than a single person, it still comes down to a personal choice of that individual.

Just my input in this thread. Again this is not to hate on you, or on veganism, but I am just sharing my personal point of view.

#13

Hello people of PCB, if you want to give me validation and praise then I will grant you the honour of my attention, but if you’re just going to not agree with what I have to say, then I’m not interested.

Just to clarify, veganism isn’t just a diet, it’s a way of life that lets you say you’re morally superior to everyone else that isn’t in your clique.

It’s hard to keep up my echo chamber when there are so many people who disagree with me are objectively wrong. Unfortunately, not everyone has been annoyed with random forum posts yet. All of the concerns I hear about veganism are fake news, sad!

[spoiler=“it sure does”]

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[ citation needed ]

I highly suggest paying over $30 to watch these films because this is a good use of your money definitely.

In addition to that, please also spend two hours watching youtube videos to prove my point for me.

yeah you don’t say

Maybe you need some more protein in your diet.

I can’t speak for the rest of us but I’m certainly not uncomfortable. I’m annoyed at how condescending you’re being.

This is one of the few fair points that’s being made. If I could press a button and everybody became veggie, I’d do it, because god damn cows make a lotta methane. But in terms of actually getting everyone to stop eating meat, preachy forum posts aren’t going to cut it.

They’re already dead. My not eating a burger isn’t going to resurrect the cow that it came from.

[ citation needed ]

i mean you clearly aren’t

Most of this post was specifically about you and how you’re making people “uncomfortable” by shoving your opinions in their face.

You coulda fooled me.

[size=18pt]TL;DR My opinions are objectively correct, and if you don’t want to agree with me, leave my echo chamber now.

#14

Asmo I feel like you’re trying to make Anima sound like an asshole, but he’s just presenting his viewpoint

He’s open to hear our perspective as long as we hear his

#15

Yes this sounds stupid, yes I am serious, no I do not care.

It started as a joke, but im now a firm believer that veganism simply does not exist. I could write an essay justifying it, but ive already done that 3 times within the last 24 hours, and believe it or not but ive convinced about a dozen people that veganism does not exist.

eh, ill just summarize a few points I’ve made.

[ol][li]Vegans base their diet/lifestyle off of abstaining from eating or using animals or their products. Animal products are found in many products, it is impossible to avoid.[/li]
[li]Based off of number 1, Humans are mammals, mammals feed their offspring milk, milk is an animal byproduct.
From the moment of birth to the moment of death, no human is a natural vegan, and those who define themselves as vegans have just adopted the theoretical system of veganism. A system that is not possible to follow in todays society.[/li]
[li]Based off of number 1, this one is a bit more controversial. Humans are animals, and by nature we are auto-cannibals. Meaning we consume ourselves (swallowing saliva, stomach digesting its lining, ect.) Therefore, we consume ourselves, members of Kingdom Animalia, therefore veganism is not physically possible.[/li]
[li]Vegans base their diet/lifestyle off of abstaining from eating sentient life. This word is chosen because it is sure to exclude plants, fungi, ect. from its list. Sentient by definition means “Able to feel or perceive things” Why do vegans avoid consumption of fish? Fish do not have the brain capacity to feel pain or understand anything outside of pure instinct.[/li]
[li]Veganism is unhealthy. Humans were by nature designed to eat a combination of meat with vegetation, going against this has led to many cases of illness and general unhealth. Plants alone cannot sustain a human’s need for amino acids and proteins.[/li]
[li]“Consumption of meat is cruel” No it isn’t, this is absolute insanity. Animals in the wild kill eachother for food every second of every day, it is by no means cruel at all. Its nature. Without meat, many animals (including humans) would have a difficult time sustaining life, and this would lead to weak newborns.[/li]
[li]Off of the previous note, Why should humans avoid the consumption of meat? We are smart enough to percieve that it may or may not be morally wrong to eat animals. Why? What is the difference between a hunter shooting a deer, eating venison and making a blanket out of the hide and a bear mauling the same deer? One is a human feeding his family, the other is a wild animal feeding hers. There is no difference, only that the human’s means of killing the animal was more humane and useful.[/li]
[li]“The hunting and livestock industries kill millions of animals” Thats true, but they are also the reason that there are so many animals. (Hunter) If a wild species’ population is dwindling, hunters will reintroduce the species to the enviornment to sustain the population and their own livelihood. (Livestock industry) to make a profit, more animals are born than are killed.[/li]
[li]Imagine this situation: A vegan walks into a grocery store, the concept is that the vegan does not buy meat because it is cruel, and they do not want to give their money to the livestock industries. Vegan walks away, another person walks up to the same steak and purchases it. What now? what would the difference ever be? The animal is already dead, and will be eaten by somebody either way.[/li]
[li]Vegans do not wear clothing made of animals (fur, leather, ect.) That animal is already dead, its meat has been eaten, why would you want the rest of the animal to go to waste?[/li]
[li]Before you read this: understand that this will throw every previous argument out of the window in favor of this new one. Nothing is real, therefore veganism (and everything collectively) is not real. Every thought, emotion, feeling, desire, philosophy, is drawn from chemicals within the brain. Without these nonliving chemicals,
everything is nothing and nothing is everything- therefore because nothing exists neither does veganism.[/li][/ol]

#16

Reading some of these responses is making me sick to my stomach and I don’t have the energy to reply to all of these at the moment because I’m dealing with a family emergency. I don’t think I’m better than anyone else for being vegan, if that’s the impression you get @Asmodean_ I’m trying to help educate people about something I’m extremely passionate about. I don’t know why you have a problem with documentaries costing money because literally everyone has Netflix nowadays but in case you don’t I linked FREE YouTube videos that are more educational than I could ever be. I’m sorry if you have a problem with me but keep your negativity to yourself and leave this discussion. This post is supposed to be a discussion not a place to hate on vegans. Veganism is not a fucking clique or popularity contest. It’s about the animals, environment and human health.

#17

@jmvvana can you copy/paste one of those essays here so we can see your reasoning?

#18

Thank you Lyra. I’m listening to all these responses. This is my post about a topic that I’m arguing for, but if people have a valid argument against then there’s nothing wrong with that.

#19

Yes this sounds stupid, yes I am serious, no I do not care.

It started as a joke, but im now a firm believer that veganism simply does not exist. I could write an essay justifying it, but ive already done that 3 times within the last 24 hours, and believe it or not but ive convinced about a dozen people that veganism does not exist.

eh, ill just summarize a few points I’ve made.

[ol][li]Vegans base their diet/lifestyle off of abstaining from eating or using animals or their products. Animal products are found in many products, it is impossible to avoid.[/li]
[li]Based off of number 1, Humans are mammals, mammals feed their offspring milk, milk is an animal byproduct.
From the moment of birth to the moment of death, no human is a natural vegan, and those who define themselves as vegans have just adopted the theoretical system of veganism. A system that is not possible to follow in todays society.[/li]
[li]Based off of number 1, this one is a bit more controversial. Humans are animals, and by nature we are auto-cannibals. Meaning we consume ourselves (swallowing saliva, stomach digesting its lining, ect.) Therefore, we consume ourselves, members of Kingdom Animalia, therefore veganism is not physically possible.[/li]
[li]Vegans base their diet/lifestyle off of abstaining from eating sentient life. This word is chosen because it is sure to exclude plants, fungi, ect. from its list. Sentient by definition means “Able to feel or perceive things” Why do vegans avoid consumption of fish? Fish do not have the brain capacity to feel pain or understand anything outside of pure instinct.[/li]
[li]Veganism is unhealthy. Humans were by nature designed to eat a combination of meat with vegetation, going against this has led to many cases of illness and general unhealth. Plants alone cannot sustain a human’s need for amino acids and proteins.[/li]
[li]“Consumption of meat is cruel” No it isn’t, this is absolute insanity. Animals in the wild kill eachother for food every second of every day, it is by no means cruel at all. Its nature. Without meat, many animals (including humans) would have a difficult time sustaining life, and this would lead to weak newborns.[/li]
[li]Off of the previous note, Why should humans avoid the consumption of meat? We are smart enough to percieve that it may or may not be morally wrong to eat animals. Why? What is the difference between a hunter shooting a deer, eating venison and making a blanket out of the hide and a bear mauling the same deer? One is a human feeding his family, the other is a wild animal feeding hers. There is no difference, only that the human’s means of killing the animal was more humane and useful.[/li]
[li]“The hunting and livestock industries kill millions of animals” Thats true, but they are also the reason that there are so many animals. (Hunter) If a wild species’ population is dwindling, hunters will reintroduce the species to the enviornment to sustain the population and their own livelihood. (Livestock industry) to make a profit, more animals are born than are killed.[/li]
[li]Imagine this situation: A vegan walks into a grocery store, the concept is that the vegan does not buy meat because it is cruel, and they do not want to give their money to the livestock industries. Vegan walks away, another person walks up to the same steak and purchases it. What now? what would the difference ever be? The animal is already dead, and will be eaten by somebody either way.[/li]
[li]Vegans do not wear clothing made of animals (fur, leather, ect.) That animal is already dead, its meat has been eaten, why would you want the rest of the animal to go to waste?[/li]
[li]Before you read this: understand that this will throw every previous argument out of the window in favor of this new one. Nothing is real, therefore veganism (and everything collectively) is not real. Every thought, emotion, feeling, desire, philosophy, is drawn from chemicals within the brain. Without these nonliving chemicals,
everything is nothing and nothing is everything- therefore because nothing exists neither does veganism.[/li][/ol]

#20

@jmvvana Here is the best and most commonly used definition of veganism (by The Vegan Society).

“A way of living that seeks to exclude, as far as possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing and any other purpose.”

Nobody is a perfect vegan.