1.8 Creative Transport

It’s too spergy. Rather than trying to collectivize transportation, “dont make shitty looking rail” is just as easy a rule. Clearly, the random one brick wide floating railways and roads that magically extend over massive distances/bodies of water are eyesores, but I don’t see how a “nonuniform” station is any more significant than an ugly noobishly built anything anywhere on the map.

If the PCBT standard is going to be what we already see with NR on the creative server they are already unrealistically tiny and physically impossible, I try to build 1:1 scale such that I can actually place train cars in the stations and tunnels.

I don’t see how if I decide to link my rail line or highways with another nearby town (like David and I began with Sackets Harbor and Victoria) why anyone else should have input in the first place.

Questions like this arising are exactly why I decided to build far away from the spawn such that I was afforded sufficient creative leeway without worrying about 15 towns popping up around me.

The point of this is that so all inter-continental roadways look uniformly similar.

Do ya really think we’d do that again? ;D

Also, calling it “spergy” is completely ridiculous and offensive to any that may be involved in the project.

Who cares if they look uniformly similar? I care that they look good. If two towns want to link to one another using Rancho-esque highway constructions rather than commissar PCBT-approved plan 1.0[size=8pt]tm , I don’t see why some other random server members magically ought to have purview over them under the guise of “messiness”, when there are plenty of other “messy” problems in creative, like roads and railways magically floating above ocean sized bodies of water (see between Raymont and Rancho), or runways built in such proximity to large cities that aircraft would fly into high rises (cspawn airport), or the fact there are cities literally floating in the air (Rancho, whatever that flat bigcity pastejob is next to cspawn).

Rancho’s scale doesn’t meet any other city on Creative. I don’t think anyone else besides Fili is willing to build in that scale, only because of how much work it is.

My point is is that there are hundreds of towns in smaller scales, and then Rancho is in a larger scale. It’s kind of a no-brainer why we’d make our highways a bit smaller… because there are more towns in the smaller scale than the larger scale

If you really need to build a Rancho-esque road, I have a loophole for you (you insulted us and I’m helping you lol)

Build the two cities really close together and don’t call it a highway…

There’s also the factor that other styles are more popular than Rancho’s (euphemism) (no offence, Fili, just not my cup of tea)

You are planning on “co-ordinating”, e.g., regulating, all regional transport. Take ferry terminals, as mentioned in OP. iirc, there are only four “ports” with actual infrastructure on the entire creative map (Bayside, Sackets Harbor, the bit south of Park City where docks are being constructed, and possibly if i remember correctly Burnton even though it sits on a landlocked lake). Clearly, this anarchic uncoordinated construction effort ought not continue unabated less it ruin the aesthetic coherency of the creative map. Why are ferry stations any more significant a need for regulation than skyscrapers? Giant floating sprites in midst of cities, which are just as “messy” as nonsensical road networks evidently cause no issue. Point being (however blunt spergy might be as a characterization) the whole thing reeks of unnecessary arbitrariness by people who like to construct the things in question (namely, highways and rail networks). I don’t think it much to ask to leave others who do not wish to partake in such a project well alone in their efforts.

It’s just an example of incongruous road construction. You can build things that look good which don’t proscribe to the OP. In which case I don’t see the need for it at all, other than to prevent, as I noted in my first post, the horrible sorts of road and rail constructions you see around the spawn which consist of floating one brick wide rail pieces or giant highways to nowhere like the one that dumps south of Empire.

My point is is that there are hundreds of towns in smaller scales, and then Rancho is in a larger scale. It's kind of a no-brainer why we'd make our highways a bit smaller... because there are more towns in the smaller scale than the larger scale

This is missing the point. It’s not about the scale of the towns, it’s about having the freedom to make decisions about interconnecting road and rail networks. Especially as in my case, I built my towns own rail and highway infrastructure, and linked it to other towns myself without having to consult random third parties for direction on ideal station and road designs, it was so far away from the rest of the network it didn’t matter at all. With that being the case, can you see why a scheme like that suggested in the OP might not be that desirable to me? It certainly helps cities who on the current map get crap road and train networks built around them, but it also means members building nowhere near me get to make infrastructure decisions for the region I’m building in.

If you really need to build a Rancho-esque road, I have a loophole for you (you insulted us and I'm helping you lol)

Build the two cities really close together and don’t call it a highway…

lol people insult one another on the server almost non-stop. It’s just banter. I don’t have a need to build a Ranch-esque road. I have a need to build my own roads, which may in fact differ from those of the PCBT. If they look good, who cares if they differ in layout. In the real world there are literally thousands of roads of different grades, widths, lane expanses, etc.

There's also the factor that other styles are more popular than Rancho's (euphemism) (no offence, Fili, just not my cup of tea)

So we should just build popular train and road styles? :stuck_out_tongue:

Here, you’re missing my point. We’re not doing this because we want to or because we want to piss people off, we’re deciding upon regulating stuff like this because it suits the server better than different roads made out of different materials.

But one thing is for sure, each governing body has a road style they stick to and follow. PCBT would be the governing body here.

#bantz

I spent days building support columns for the rail between Raymont and Rancho. Sure, physically impossible, but still not magically floating.

The issue at hand is not what looks “good”, but rather the fact that most styles, regardless of how “good” they look, turn into absolute crap when you need to establish a transition between two jurisdictions. There’s nothing wrong with varying road styles other than the fact that they need to connect to each other, because that’s what roads do. Because of this inconvenient fact, changing lane widths, lane expanses, etc. is generally poorly handled, especially in a voxel game environment such as Minecraft, and on such a large server such as PCB, where some city owners may be inactive, banned, etc. Communication is key if you want a consistent style within the server. If the players on this server have failed to conduct themselves to form a consistent road style, then I suppose having the staff do it instead is worth a shot.

Heck, if we don’t agree on anything else, I beg that lane widths and which side of the road to drive on are standardized - just about everything else regarding roads is secondary (and most other aspects of road design can probably be transitioned between without much of an issue).

Ultimately, this entire discussion boils down to one question: what do you envision the Creative map looking like? Will it be somewhat uniform, connected, and one big meshy network kind of thing, or like the current map, which is rather disjointed, with random builds everywhere, and a few cities connected here and there, held together by the mercy of warps?

Neither answer is inherently correct, but the answer to this question decides whether we make the attempt to keep the sort of setup we have now (build what you want, stay outta everyone’s way) or to have a new, organized, agreed-upon style.

An extreme case of the latter situation can be seen in the Greenfield map (and server). It is strictly whitelisted and has a very specific style, and a small player base. Close, effective communication along with clearly defined standards have allowed for the players of the server to create a huge, consistent city. Whether that can be achieved here on PCB (if we wanted to) remains to be seen.

Basically, it’s a choice between neatness or variety. Having more of one will always lead to a sacrifice in the other.

I plead guilty to this offense on several accounts. Then again, city owners were like “but I want an airport RIGHT HERE and this is the only land you get to build it on”. If the terrain is so hilly that a plane would literally have to approach at a 45 degree angle to land (probably end up blowing out a tire or two IRL), it’s simply impractical to have one. That’s not a need for standardization per se, but rather a need for common sense.

Good luck agreeing on what’s “popular”. What counts as “popular” - how many people are building a certain style, or how many people like a certain style? A few months back in a pocket of NR inactivity, several rail networks popped up, with poorly designed, quickly constructed tracks. It’s certainly “popular” if you consider that many people began building in that style, and I would even say that many people would be satisfied with it (functionality first, for some people). Granted, even most of the older NR and Acra City networks are built in such a manner, and it’s clear that what’s popular changes over time. Nothing wrong with picking “popular”, it just may be harder than it initially sounds.

To be honest, I sorta started NR under the intention that nobody gave a crap about my crappy tunneling, etc. It’s clear now that I was wrong. I’m am all at once taken aback, proud, and somewhat insulted.

I was about to say “Oh, like Acra City!” and then I came across the word consistent.

In saying this though, greenfield uses an extremely similar model to… well the technically most PCB-esque map there is, Bigcity.

ALSO, people seem to be forgetting the simple matter that CREATIVE is CREATIVE, it’s not freebuild town world, it’s not regulation city world (we have bigcity for that), its creative, and it has never been limited to cities. I personally think that regulating all transport (except that ridiculous airport/port rule (I don’t like airports but regulating them is the dumbest rule ever period.)) is a good idea, but is difficult to maintain. The ugliness of creative wasn’t directly attributed to transport in the first place anyway, a lot of it had to do with builds in creative simply being unfinished or just being ugly, but that’s creative!

This side-ways perspective brought to you by Wairoa, may contain traces of obscurity.

The regulation of airports is to ensure they are in sensible locations and shared between cities, not one airport per city. Its more planning permission than a style guide

Gotta admit I only skim read this, but I honestly agree with will’s general point.

As long as it looks good, who cares?

The only major concern I’ve actually seen is that road styles won’t match. The solution to this is simple and it happens all the time IRL. You construct a border crossing/toll booth to make the change as non-intrusive as possible.

I know you’ve already decided this all, but yeah, that’s my opinion on it.

^^^ This.

To control the way airports look would be hellish, not only for the people building it, but for us as well. Too much to keep up with anyway.

There’s an awful lot of stuff in this thread.

Here’s a summary (PCBT people, please edit if I missed anything)

Stuff we will make ourselves:

[ul][li]Primary Railway Networks[/li][/ul]
Stuff we will coordinate:
[ul][li]Secondary Railway/Subway Networks[/li]
[li]Roads[/li][/ul]
Stuff we will provide “planning permission” for:
[ul][li]Major transport infrastructure, such as air and sea ports[/li][/ul]

Obviously, no idea what lines we’ll be doing yet.

Changed “subway” to “railway” as “subway” denotes intra-city, which we are not controlling. ~Amphi

I think a bunch of you are missing the point of this. When we say “regulate” we mean we want to check in on the quality of the work. If everything is one region some things ought to look the same such as roads, highways, etc. It’s much more clean when everyone works together to have a similar common ground. However, if you’re in your own little area and the quality of your work is great, then exactly what you’ve been saying it’s not a huge deal.

It’s only fair that PCBT members check up on the quality of your work because not only do we want an environment for everyone to enjoy, we want members of this server to improve their building methods/styles. We understand Creative can be used as a vessel of making your ideas actual structures of your own. Some people are ok, others great, but some bad. It’s important that we work with others to improve their skills so that we won’t have to worry about petty things like how wide a street is or the variety of heights in buildings within a 100 block radius.

We didn’t come up with this organization to tell you no no no. We created it in hopes of having a structured map that everyone would feel happy to contributing and collaborating their ideas into. We didn’t have so much group collaboration on the creative map that is about to be archived which is why we are we want you guys to work with us to make a much more kickass map that we can all be happy about. No please, carry on with these complains and just be happy that the hierarchy of staff thought of you guys and considered some new values we wish to put into the new map

Also, if you’re unhappy, tell us why!

We’re not here to ruin your lives or turn Creative into the Fourth Reich. Now is the perfect time to tell us stuff, as I highly doubt we will be making any major changes to our policies after the reset, it’s just to messy to change old stuff.

This sounds like an assertion rather than a matter of fact. Of course you can “establish transitions” effectively without having to defer to other parties. People do it on MC servers all the time everywhere.

Communication is key if you want a consistent style within the server. If the players on this server have failed to conduct themselves to form a consistent road style, then I suppose having the staff do it instead is worth a shot.

Yes, we ought to lump in players who are actually trying to meet the aforementioned goals in with banned/inactive ones in denying them the opportunity to do the above. That sounds pretty specious to me.

Ultimately, this entire discussion boils down to one question: what do you envision the Creative map looking like? Will it be somewhat uniform, connected, and one big meshy network kind of thing, or like the current map, which is rather disjointed, with random builds everywhere, and a few cities connected here and there, held together by the mercy of warps?

This is a false dichotomy. Unless the staff commits itself to literally doing nothing other than building roads and rails, of course some cities are going to be disjointed, unconnected, sparsely populated, etc by virtue of different players spending their time doing different things. I wouldn’t characterize having to type /warp name that consumes 4 seconds of your time as a a “merciful”, tasking arrangement.

Basically, it's a choice between neatness or variety. Having more of one will always lead to a sacrifice in the other.

No it doesn’t.

There is not one airport per city on the current map. This is also beside the fact airports serve absolutely no function at all in minecraft other than aesthetics so “regulating” them makes no more sense than skyscrapers or fire houses or power plants.

The ferry/dock bit is even more irrelevant. Two of the four docks in the current map are in neighboring cities (Sackets Harbor, Bayside) by virtue of the fact they border large bodies of water. I’m not sure what would be accomplished by spreading them out.