PCBT, Rules need to be limited

Gaming Minecraft
#1 
 PCBT, Inevitable laws keeping people from building there own city transportation. Is this right? Does this violate our right of freedom? I say yes. PCBT has been created (As far as I know) July, 5th, 2015 said by Asmodea. I have been recently prosecuted for making a railroad. I have been cleared by claudia and amelia to make this railroad. But "Asmodea" Said it violates PCBT rules. Once he said that. I went to the forums. No were on the forums could I find the PCBT rules. I searched for about 1 hour (PCB site, Google, Etc.) Therefore, If the player cannot find the rules. How will the player follow them? I believe PCBT should limit the rules because Everyone should have rights, If it's your property You build what you want, PCBT doesn't tell how I make my city.

 PCBT limits what people can do transportation wize. Is this good? No, It's proven, If you don't let someone be creative, Hold them in a box of rules. The person is more likely to leave. A quote from forbes.com. "You Failed To Engage Their Creativity: Great talent is wired to improve, enhance, and add value. They are built to change and innovate. They NEED to contribute by putting their fingerprints on design. Smart leaders don’t place people in boxes – they free them from boxes. What’s the use in having a racehorse if you don’t let them run?" This quote really tells how PCBT is limiting many from building. What is a city without transportation? Another quote from

 Another quote shows how more rules means less development. You Failed To Develop Their Skills: Leadership isn’t a destination – it’s a continuum. No matter how smart or talented a person is, there’s always room for growth, development, and continued maturation. If you place restrictions on a person’s ability to grow, they’ll leave you for someone who won’t. This shows why people leave PCB for this reason. If you apply restrictions on everyone. How do you expect city's to grow? More importantly, How to you expect people to stay on the server? With PCBT rules applied. People can't make their own creations. Someone may have the best Idea for a rail system. They make it, It looks outstanding. Then, An op comes, And COMPLETELY destroys the work. Do you expect that person to continue playing on the server, After you intentionally destroyed they're work because it didn't fit up to your standards? 95% of the people I asked on the server said they would leave because of that. Is it really worth it? 95% of the people...

 Why should PCBT dictate how I make my city? Cities are made from creativity, Building an amazing city doesn't come out of thin air. Restricting people from what they want to make is inevitable. 98% of randomly chosen people were asked "If you couldn't build what you wanted, Would you stay on PCB?" 12 out of 15 said they would leave. Is it really worth it??? PCBT limits creativity, Witch limits the player count. Which limits donations. That that means complete server failure. People should be able to make a train in their own city. It shouldn't be up to PCBT weather they can or not. Creative mode if made for freedom. Not for limitations.

 Me, And the 12 out of 15 randomly selected people would rather have freedom then limitations. PCBT limits how we design our transportation systems. Why should it? There is a good side to it, PCBT was made to make quality transportation systems. Most of the PCBT train stations I have seen look phenomenal. PCBT definitely makes crappy train systems look like Shit. Unfortunately. I would rather have PCBT limit their rules then having it there way. Thats why I ask. Can we please, PLEASE, make our own transportation systems? From the studies I have done, And the testimonies I have shown. I ask. Please, Limit PCBT rules.

Thank you.

~Ryan

#2

Honestly, if you’re against PCBT, and you haven’t looked at all of the other threads like this, then you should.

We’ve recently made compromises due to the words of jmvvana, who caused us to rethink our plan according to what you all would like. I’d highly suggest you to read those first.

And if this becomes a shouting match, this thread will be locked immediately.

Thanks,
Amphi

(PS: I’m not getting involved in this thread, I just did with jm)

#3

I agree 100% with ryan, and have been against all this crap from the beginning.

As long as it looks half decent/ isn’t just a floating block in the sky, people should be able to do whatever with everything.

#4

Your entire post is based on one, incorrect, assumption. That is, PCBT regulates everything. We don’t. We only do railways. So no, by organising the construction of intercity railways, we are not putting restrictions on your ability to grow your city.

No were on the forums could I find the PCBT rules
[url=http://projectcitybuild.com/forums/index.php?topic=10854]http://projectcitybuild.com/forums/index.php?topic=10854[/url] There was an older thread, but I deleted it when I posted that one. PCBT was announced:

[ul][li]Several weeks before the reset, where we actively asked people for criticism. It’s worth mentioning that, at this point, PCBT was MORE restrictive than it is now, and one person complained.[/li]
[li]A few days after, with a document, which again is out of date[/li]
[li]Numerous threads informing people of changes[/li]
[li]That thread[/li][/ul]

Then, An op comes, And COMPLETELY destroys the work.
We only have done this in rare cases, when there is already a transport link. I am not sure of the exact circumstances of your case, AFAIK yoshi death with it, but I gather it was a very short link, between cities.
Why should PCBT dictate how I make my city?
We do? News to me...

Okay, that part over. Stuff I need to say:

[ul][li]Not being able to make your own line now does not mean you will NEVER be able to do so. Right now we’re sorting out the PCBT core networks, and then we will open to other networks, providing it’s actually well planned.[/li]
[li]If you have any questions, problems, or queries about PCBT, you can PM myself, @Asmodean_ or @Amphitryon [/li]
[li]You are allowed to do whatever the hell you want within your city. We don’t care what you do.[/li][/ul]

Also just want to query your “statistics”…
Asking people who are on the server at the time is called convenient sampling, it is not an effective method. I doubt you carefully crafted questions which were designed to be neutral and not loaded. 95% of the people (on the server at the time) do not agree with what you said here, they agree with the questions you asked them.
The one question you did state is ridiculous:

"If you couldn't build what you wanted, Would you stay on PCB?"
Let's imagine your TV gets stolen, and you talk to the police but they refuse to do anything about it. You then go around asking people "If the police will not solve any crimes, would you stay in this country?". The difference is huge. So, of course, "95%" of people said they would leave, but we're not stopping them from building what they want. It's not like every time you want to place a block you have to fill out a form for permission.
#5

“No were on the forums could I find the PCBT rules.”
http://projectcitybuild.com/forums/index.php?topic=10457.0

“I have been cleared by claudia and amelia to make this railroad”
I don’t know what authority you presume for one trusted and one member to hold over the middle of nowhere.

“PCBT limits what people can do transportation wize. Is this good?”
Yes. Although it does sound strange, experience of the rail systems that cropped up in the last creative map created what was termed as a “clusterfuck” of train networks linking buildings either side of a small road and most intercity train lines being completely devoid of any detail and simply being a single one-block-wide string that blighted the landscape. PCBT doesn’t mean you can’t build any trains whatsoever at all at any time ever no exceptions ever, it just means you should seek permission before building, and makes sure that they actually look good. I’d rather have five regulated necessary lines than fifty rubbish useless ones.

“If you place restrictions on a person’s ability to grow, they’ll leave you for someone who won’t. This shows why people leave PCB for this reason.”
We place restrictions on rails so that there aren’t any bad ones. If there are good ones then that’s great. Your two track one block wide are not up to code.

“They make it, It looks outstanding.”
It didn’t. It was two times a one block wide stone slab string across from the middle of nowhere to a small town with two unfinished buildings in. Stations had nothing around for miles, and were completely unnecessary.

“Then, An op comes”
I’m a mod.

“And COMPLETELY destroys the work. Do you expect that person to continue playing on the server, After you intentionally destroyed they’re work because it didn’t fit up to your standards?”
If they don’t fit up to the standards then they’re hardly outstanding.

“95% of the people I asked on the server said they would leave because of that. Is it really worth it? 95% of the people…”
… think that being reprimanded for breaking the rules is a bad thing? The way you stated the question in your post clearly shows some bias, and your research is likely to contain the same bias. Did you know 73% of statistics are made up on the spot? I’d hardly think your version of reality as you stated it in the post is how it would actually happen.

“Why should PCBT dictate how I make my city?”
We don’t. We dictate that you shouldn’t make train lines without asking permission to stop "clusterfuck"s appearing everywhere.

" 98% of randomly chosen people were asked “If you couldn’t build what you wanted, Would you stay on PCB?” 12 out of 15 said they would leave."
… What kind of statistic is this? You randomly chose at least 50 people, ignored one of them and then asked the rest the question, which is clearly biased as I have explained above. Out of the at least 49 people you must have surveyed to make the 98% a valid truth, 12 out of 15? said they would leave.
First off, that’s a loaded question. Second off, your data doesn’t match. Did you know that according to a poll of 300 people, I found out that 41 out of 46 people think that most survey data is just fabricated?

By the way, 12 out of 15 isn’t 95%. It’s 80%.

“PCBT definitely makes crappy train systems look like Shit.”
No it doesn’t. If there’s a crappy train station - IF it’s supposed to be there, then the builders are given tips on how to improve the station, not just given sign up saying “THIS IS SHIT” and being left for it to rot.

“I would rather have PCBT limit their rules then having it there way. Thats why I ask. Can we please, PLEASE, make our own transportation systems?”
Limitation to rules allows greater freedom of building. That much is true. However that’s not always a good thing. Would you rather have nice stations, or nice stations and crappy stations?

#6

This really needs to be dealt with. I hated how other people’s things, Transportation systems, Are destroyed because of this. I think PCBT needs to come to an end. And I’m not stopping until it does. People should have the right to be creative. Let their talents shine. This PCBT is limiting what players can do. It’s inevitable, And it’s not right. And if you want me to survey more people. I’d be happy to. :slight_smile:

#7

You have addressed literally none of the counter arguments we’ve raised except for your dodgy data. Please address them and stop acting all holier-than-thou about it. Just because you’re narrow-minded doesn’t mean you’re always right.

#8

Are you asking for other peoples opinions?

#9

NO.
I’m asking for YOU to reply to the issues raised by Amphi, Octo and me in this topic.

#10

You failed to follow the server’s rules. It’s also worth mentioning that there is information in spawn about this as well.

As part of the process of enforcing these rules, we evaluate the quality and time spent on these railways. In your case, we decided that there was a lack of either. If: “Someone may have the best Idea for a rail system. They make it, It looks outstanding.” then we wouldn’t destroy it. In fact, another member on the server built a line, that whilst technically violating the PCBT rules, we decided to keep because it: Looked good and served an actual purpose.

#11

On the request of Ryan, this thread is locked. Screenshot.

#12

I agree with Ryan too, sorry, but I think we are over complicating without any reason. Its a public creative server, as long as it isn’t offensive to anyone, anything should be allowed.

I don’t know what the hell happened, but it seems to me that you guys pestered Ryan in game and persuaded him to lock this thread, and honestly, I think that is kinda low.

Perhaps holding a vote to decide if we should keep PCBT as this is a topic that generated a lot of controversy since it began.

EDIT: I spoke to Ryan in game and he asked me to unlock the topic again

#13

Effectively we said that we would like to have a discussion, but we can’t have a discussion if he doesn’t address any of the points we make.

For example, this comment addresses one part of many responses, and totally ignores almost all of what myself and Yoshi said:

He complained about a bunch of stuff, we say why we think it’s ok, and he just ignores it and posts a summarised version of the original post.
We told him that if he wanted to hold a discussion, he actually needed to respond properly. After giving some specific examples of stuff he should respond to (that is, effectively helping him to build a more convincing argument), he just told us to lock the thread.

Here are all of the issues with his post we raised, but have been ignored:

[ul][li]The rules have been posted in a bunch of places[/li]
[li]The questions he asked people were totally ridiculous[/li]
[li]We don’t control city construction[/li]
[li]We actually help improve people’s stations, by getting them to construct them and then improving them[/li][/ul]

Unless ryan responds to what people have said, this post is pretty much useless. No point starting a discussion if only one side does the talking.

#14

I agree 100% with you Ruby, and Ryan

#15

I’ve unlocked it so that ryan can respond, but if he doesn’t address the majority of points people have raised against his original argument, I’ll relock it, as a discussion where one side ignores the other is useless.

#16

I agree with Ryan and Ruby 100% I say ban PCBT

#17

That thread in no way, shape, or form asks for any criticism of any kind at all. It may as well say ‘this is how it is now. deal with it.’

How about the PCB rules which allow you to build anywhere within reason? The middle of nowhere seems like a perfectly reasonable place to build to me.

[size=12px]It didn't. It was two times a one block wide stone slab string across from the middle of nowhere to a small town with two unfinished buildings in.
Maybe it was unfinished? did anyone even bother to check before jumping to conclusions?
[size=12px]"Then, An op comes"[size=12px]I'm a mod.
[size=12px] Now you are being picky simply for the sake of being picky. Everyone knew what he meant.
[size=12px] If they don't fit up to the standards then they're hardly outstanding.
[size=12px] That's no excuse to destroy someone's work.

[size=12px]
IMO, it is ridiculous to destroy someone’s work because it didn’t meet an arbitrary standard which nobody has been told prior to the fact.

Also from that screenshot, it does appear that ryan was somewhat bullied into saying that. I’d quite like to see the chat preceding that statement.

Once again, this whole system is stupid and this shouldn’t even be an argument.

#18 
 Alright. After reading through all of these comments about PCBT and why people shouldn't be able to make rails as they please, I find it a bit unnecessary. It is FREEbuild for goodness sake! A good portion of the builds are "hardly outstanding" anyways. We don't just destroy all of the nooby builds. BigCity is what looks good. That is where we can have our rules, and our specifically chosen builds placed. Freebuild is where anyone can build, and build whatever they want. The towns who have rails connecting them have agreed to it. It isn't anyone else's business. If you want creative to look a certain way, make a town. Only let you and certain people build in it. Ban railroads! Let's not dictate where and how and if people make them. 

And sorry to call you out @Asmodean_ , but all of that was a bit uncalled for. Yes, you are a mod. It isn't a big deal.

It is just a game yall. I hate to say it. Let's not get all upset and angry about some rails. :)
#19

I’m also on the Ruby&friends boat. I’ve felt that PCBT is unecessary.

I think that it serves a purpose, but i do not think that it should be server-run, and actually associated with PCB’s rule-set. I think it would be better to have PCBT be a private organization run by the individuals who currently run it, and any town owner who wishes to submit themselves to the rules of PCBT may then agree to do so.

#20

Ruby beat me to the punch. I agree that PCBT is a little over the top, especially on the creative server. What I think looks good, another may not. People may build something small at first with the intention to expand later. We shouldn’t be deleting other’s builds because they are “unsightly.” If they break a rule, are too close to another build or are griefs, then certainly.